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CentiLeo for Cinema 4D 0.483 available (multi-GPU and efficiency improvement)
 
Hello everyone!

We finally made CentiLeo 0.48 for Cinema 4D R16-R18! It took so long time, so many efforts. Sorry for very long waiting! We thought were close to release for the last 2.5 months but technical development issues emerged and forced us to do more complex solutions to get right result. And that cycle happened several times. This 0.48 version development was harder than integrating with C4D or 3ds Max .

CentiLeo 0.48 release is mostly about multi-GPU and other efficiency improvements for rendering and memory management. Graphics feature improvements (more shaders, AOVs, improved shadow catcher, motion blur and mesh lights) are expected in the nearest alpha releases which will come out few times per month.

Download here: http://centileo.com/forum/messages/forum18/message548/110-download-link-centileo-for-cinema-4d-v048-...

Download shaderball: http://centileo.com/bitrix/components/bitrix/forum.interface/show_file.php?fid=326&action=download

User manual from 0.44 (yes it needs update): User Manual - cntlc4d-0.44alpha_en.pdf

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.480 alpha (2017 May 2)

[core] Multi-GPU support (maximum 16) with adaptive render data and cache arrangement on GPUs with different memory size. It scales 1.9-2.75x for 2-3x GPUs
[core] Up to 50% improved GI sampling for scenes with harder lighting. Sampling becomes smarter at the cost of more complex computations. For scenes with more or less interesting lighting (interiors, exteriors with several CG lights and/or complex HDRs) it gives up to 50% faster rendering. But for scenes with simple lighting (e.g. outdoor with single area light or simple HDR) where new smart sampling is too smart the rendering is 15-25% slower due to more complex computations compared CentiLeo 0.47.
[core] Solved render initialization problem that decreased render speed in CentiLeo 0.47 by 2x until user manually plays with cache sizes. This solution converts to 2x faster render for production mode and for those who didn’t bother with cache size manipulation.
[core] 2.5x faster scene parsing for complex geometry (when render data is initialized and recompiled in IPR mode).
[core] A lot more fluent IPR experience when camera or post-process settings or other scene data are changed. 3D app viewport doesn’t lag as before. IPR responses real-time for simple data changes (like camera motion, post-effects, object motion or material changes) while user continues moving the UI slider params.
[core] Around 40% less memory needed for geometry storage. Now we pack 25M unique non-instanced triangles (with 1 UV channel, normal and tangent vectors) in 1GB. Wider range of highpoly scenes become less out-of-cory.
[core] 30% faster rendering for scenes with out-of-core geometry (and this accel adds on top of mentioned geometry memory savings).
[core] Up to 4 UV channels supported for each geometry mesh (selectable in mapping slots of shaders).
[core] Material editor preview: much faster and nicer preview render. [core] Each GPU is initialized with as much memory as needed by scene (unlike taking all free memory even for trivial scenes in CentiLeo 0.47).
[core] Render stop criterion is now driven by min/max number of image iterations and also noise level. If the pixel gets at least min iterations and the noise level matches the user defined noise level then the render will not revisit this pixel anymore. Noise detection becomes more conservative and robust now.
[core] Added roughness parameter for Diffuse channel of material (it also hides shadow terminator artifacts on low-poly objects if any).
[C4D plugin] Improved render time in native Picture Viewer mode by updating secondary AOV output less frequently.
[C4D plugin] Slight reorganization of Material editor GUI (all SSS are placed in one tab, Translucency is also placed in a separate tab).

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.481 alpha (2017 May 3)

[core] Fixed bug when one of several GPUs may randomly avoid participating in collective rendering

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.482 alpha (2017 May 4)

[core] Fixed bug when changing any Mix parameter of material (or any parameter which has no effect ) may cause render degradation and crash.
[core] Fixed bug when switching between materials (and/or removing them) may cause render stop.
[core] Fixed bug with artifacts related to wrong smooth normals of mesh.
[core] Fixed bug with artifacts on anisotropic reflections.
[core] Fixed bug when material tangent space doesn’t really change when user enables it.
[C4D plugin] Added Sun item to main CentiLeo menu which adds sun with proper tags understandable by CentiLeo.

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.483 alpha (2017 May 10)

[core] Fixed bug with missing polygons on small objects like plane.
[C4D plugin] Fixed bug with render stop upon deletion of material tag.
[C4D plugin] Fixed bug with IPR random wrong parsing of objects and render freezes.

Known issues to be solved

- If you have several GPUs in computer it’s not recommended to assign the display-GPU for rendering. Sometimes is causes strange behavior. Currently we are trying to fix it.
- Displacement mapping feature is deactivated due to large code changes overall. This feature will be recovered within the next few short CentiLeo updates.
- Sometimes GUI of IPR window may have old style controls.
- May not initialize if AMD GPU is in your computer together with NVIDIA GPU.
- Very limited scene converter tool from Cinema 4D native materials (only diffuse color and texture are converted and translated if assigned to the object)
- May not support non-latin texture paths.

Enjoy rendering with CentiLeo again! And please shader experience related to multi-GPU behavior.

Kirgman
Edited: Kirgman - 10.05.2017 22:16:24 (Added info on update 0.483 (May 10, 2017))
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
0.481 update: Fixed bug when one of several GPUs may randomly avoid participating in collective rendering.
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Hi Kirgman! great news buddy!
I'm testing here, thank you!


bug report: IPR and cinema freeze when you change from a material to another when IPR is running.
 
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Hi Kirgman! great news buddy!
I'm testing here, thank you!


bug report: IPR and cinema freeze when you change from a material to another when IPR is running.
Hi Rodrigo! Does it always reproduce? Can you please describe this case a bit more (which scene, materials, GPUs, etc.). I still can't reproduce
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
I got stability problems when changing any kind of Mix parameter in material
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Hello Kirgman! Congrads on the release! It is running super fast so far with 7 gpu's 1080's. Couple of things I've noticed:
  • When I change to bodypaint layout, I loose the ipr window and I can't get it back.

  • When I start the ipr window there is some kind of lag, C4D becomes unresponsive for a couple of seconds.
  • I can't get the sun to work, who do you put a default sun and sky in? Or is it not ready yet?
  • Cubic mapping does not work, it is the most basic mapping I think it should work to speed things up.
  • The material system is in great need of a node editor, it would speed things up greatly!
  • It is really fast so far! I mean look at this test after only 1m50sec! interior with only one hdri!
It is on the right path to become a great renderer, it just needs some more native stuff support (like hair, noises etc etc) and a node system support. I would also merge the post processing values to a tab in the ipr on the right for quick access instead of the render settings tab.

That's it for now, I will test further and again, congrads!
 
Hi Konstantinos! Thanks for the test!
It is interesting to know what are the timings with this scene with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 GPUs. And with/without
display GPU.
There are some stability bugs because a lot of things have changed. Trying to fix them asap.

We really lack good shaders arsenal. In the next few updates there is a plan to make at least 20 shader nodes, procedural noise and mapping. Also want to make it friendly with TextureTag.
I was thinking about 3rd party GUI engine for node editor, but will probably do like xpresso with native c4d tools.

To make a sun you should add c4d sun obect + centileo light tag. I will add more presets like sun, glass material to the top menu
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Hi Kirg! I will do a step by step video soon
 
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Hi Kirg! I will do a step by step video soon
Hi Rodrigo! Thanks a lot! Maybe some example .c4d file will also help
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Congrads on the release!
Work fine with 1080ti SLI.
I'm testing here, thank you!
 
Quote
play boy wrote:
Congrads on the release!
Work fine with 1080ti SLI.
I'm testing here, thank you!
Thanks! I haven't forgotten about fixing shadows on shadow catcher. Hope to do them soon in 0.49
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Hi Kirg! thanks for the sss in one tab. much better now!

here the link to the bug video: https://mega.nz/#!S0pnxD5Y!LG3XYfe6Wgyq8d4I_20qpubFoBQ0lca1NooFip7wRQc
dual nvidia 970 GTX

Request feature: a channel for material alpha(Std Material) it will allow us to use a material stack like we have in Cinema 4D

plus: the material tags need to be avaluated from left to righ at object manager
see the image: https://ibb.co/n6xFi5
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 03.05.2017 16:50:54
 
Feature Request: add an option on Cinema 4D preferences to set the defaults GPUs for rendering(like this example from redshift)
image: https://ibb.co/de9QGQ
 
Hi Rodrigo! The video is very clear about what is happening. Thanks for your effort! :) I will recreate the same case in my computer to find the fix for bug. It was strange. At least it is good that it didn't crashed the entire system but has paused internally (CentiLeo has internal pause and one user click-pause). Maybe internal pause was emerged for such quick scene.
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
plus: the material tags need to be avaluated from left to righ at object manager
see the image: https://ibb.co/n6xFi5
Sure, I see this problem, will fix it together with more proper TextureTag interpretation for CentiLeo.
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Feature Request: add an option on Cinema 4D preferences to set the defaults GPUs for rendering(like this example from redshift)
image: https://ibb.co/de9QGQ
We have such option in standard scene render settings in the tab "Hardware Settings". They are saved per scene.
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
I do not know if it is the best behavior, other renderers have a global option in Cinema 4D preferences and an option to override globals in the scene options. I think this is the best way to implement it.
Imagine that whenever I create a new scene I will need to adjust which GPUs I will use.
This is not good from the point of view of practicality.
 
I think similar way already. I have fixed my bug (with Mix param) and your bug. The source of problem was the same funny mistake. I have reproduced the steps from your video and the problem doesn't appear anymore. Currently I am solving a bug with wrong smooth normals and resulting artifacts that appeared in 0.48, Once I fix it there will be small bugfix update. After that will continue working on new features
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
+ 0.482 update with 5 more bugfixes mentioned here. See first topic
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Feedback: 0.482 still freezing in the same case of materials.
nvidia driver 382.05
nvidia gtx 970
nvidia gtx 970

try change the order of materials tags....it happens too.
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 05.05.2017 04:00:54
 
Hello again,

Some bugs and requests:

In the image below I get this black area that I don't get with other render engines, it must be a bug.
If I change the camera during render the ipr does not update, I have to close the ipr and restart it.
I figured out the sun but I don't see a real sky model so far, maybe it's in your to do list? If yes then an atmospheric haze or fog option would also be nice!
I would like the values for exposure and highlights and all that to be more unlimited than 0-10. The scale could be from -10 to 10 but if we type in bigger or smaller numbers they should have an effect, much like the rest of the sliders in C4D. It would be cool to be moved in a tab in ipr lico corona renderer or vray.
Cubic mapping support is a must.
Node system for materials... :) and easier materials properties..like what does the texture slot do? It does not take the texture, that should go in the color slot.. so what is it for? etc etc.. maybe better material options layering, I can come up with some examples if you like but check also the other renderers. I like that it is tidy and all options in one material though.. :)
Please don't take all that as negative, I'm just trying to provide feedback for what I think is a very good and promising render engine!
Good job so far!
Image1.jpg (439.11 Kb)
 
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Feedback: 0.482 still freezing in the same case of materials.
nvidia driver 382.05
nvidia gtx 970
nvidia gtx 970

try change the order of materials tags....it happens too.
Hi Rodrigo! When tested yesterday it stopped happening. Today it's always reproduced after it was compiled for release. Continue searching for solution.

Quote
Konstantinos Despotis wrote:
In the image below I get this black area that I don't get with other render engines, it must be a bug.
Hi Konstantinos! Thanks for bugrep. Don't hesitate to demand more. I don't consider requests as negative. If valid thing is asked then it shoudl be done by us :)
As for the black artifact on the pillow - I have seen it before in the engine, but then it has gone by itself before I was able to fix it.
Please, can you send me the model of this pillow separatelly so I would operate on the problem more productively.

Physical Sky model as you describe is in our Todo list. We start improving our shaders and make other graphics features. And there will be handling of material tags list per object same as in native C4D renderers. Later will do node editor. C4D is very pleasant environment for programming, it's really like a pleasure.

Quote
Konstantinos Despotis wrote:
and easier materials properties..like what does the texture slot do? It does not take the texture, that should go in the color slot.. so what is it for? etc etc.. maybe better material options layering, I can come up with some examples if you like but check also the other renderers. I like that it is tidy and all options in one material though..
Do you mean that our material slots dont accept usual Cinema textures? :) They are currently not supported. Currently it can only accept own CentiLeo Bitmaps and other texture types that are available after clicking "Edit" button. Just very custom. Once we make our shader system powerfull enough we wll be able to add support for some C4D textures (at least CC4D Bitmap and some other important things). Still I am not sure about some C4D texture (especially procedural) because they may be closed source and require pre-evaluating them, backing them to images and mapping (Octane does this and it's not always convenien /efficient). Anyway, I hope that when we will have 25 own texture/shader node types that we start implementing now + visual node editor (even if it's own entirelly) it may force people to forget about native menus :) But anyway most basic native things must be supported.

Quote
Konstantinos Despotis wrote:
If I change the camera during render the ipr does not update, I have to close the ipr and restart it.
Does IPR run at the same time? Does the timer increase? Have you clicked "Camera Lock" button? Have you made some editing activity before this happens?
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Quote
Kirgman wrote:
Quote
QuoteKonstantinos Despotis wrote:
and easier materials properties..like what does the texture slot do? It does not take the texture, that should go in the color slot.. so what is it for? etc etc.. maybe better material options layering, I can come up with some examples if you like but check also the other renderers. I like that it is tidy and all options in one material though..
Do you mean that our material slots dont accept usual Cinema textures?
I think it's more about naming things properly. Something like use word "texture" for color parameters and, for example, "roughness map" for what is currently called "texture" in roughness field.

Am I right, Konstantinos?
 
You're absolutely right! I will make some more tests and send a scene on Monday from my office.
 
Funny thing, I checked the scene today before I send it and the black marks were gone! I don;t know what caused them.
1min 30sec render here, only one window, fullhd.
Image.jpg (316.07 Kb)
 
This what I was afraid of. This bug with black marks is about shading normals. I have known about it when looked at normal AOVs. But it appear rarely in the same scene and same conditions. I have few thoughts how to find the exact reason for it but postpone a bit :)
For example the bug reported by Rodrigo had uncertain reasons and different behavior in the same conditions. Searched it for 2 days and fixed. Will update today together with update for 3ds Max.
Quote
Konstantinos Despotis wrote:
1min 30sec render here, only one window, fullhd.
How does it compare to Octane? :) You also should know that CentiLeo can be accelerated even more in some future.
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
what happened to displacement maps not showing up anymore
 
Quote
Aimar NL_21 wrote:
what happened to displacement maps not showing up anymore
Hi Aimar, they are temporarily switched off by developer. After many changed that were done by 0.48 version there were too many crash bugs and artifacts and that would take 1-2 weeks fix and serious improvements needed. So we have postponed recovering it. I hope to fix it by CentiLeo 0.51-0.53, new displacement solution will be a lot better.
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
At the moment, noise wise it's pretty good, it's actually much faster than octane, the same scene above takes roughly 3 times the time to reach the same level of noise in octane even with adaptive sampling turned on, according to my tests! So you have a winner at your hands, even more with out of core geometry and all, and if you say it can be further accelerated then I'm sold. But, it has yet some way to go to be ready for any kind of production, from the materials structure and naming, the general UI (very important), the tone mapping options are very important (at the moment 2.2 gamma seems really dark for some reason and I cannot go past 4) to overall host app support,( hair, instances, special shaders like mograph, vertex maps etc..) First, for me, it has to match the features of the other players,(sky models, haze, volumes, particle support, instancing and color variations, node material systems, fast sss and intuitive materials and interface, compositing channels and more. Second, it has to be flexible and support each host applications strengths, (mograph, shaders, hair, viewport, default lights) to make it easy to transition and third, it has to play well with third party plugins that are widely used, like X-particles, Carbon scatter, Forest pack( for max) etc. Lastly, a good converter from the other main players would go a long way, like convert a scene from Octane/vray/corona/physical render etc to Centileo. And a good portfolio of good architectural/product images on your website would attract people, but they have to be good, better to not have any than have some mediocre ones.

That's my two cents , all the best for the development.
 
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Feedback: 0.482 still freezing in the same case of materials.
nvidia driver 382.05
nvidia gtx 970
nvidia gtx 970

try change the order of materials tags....it happens too.
+ 0.483 update that fix this bug and related bugs due to other random frezzes, crashes or wrong object parsing

Quote
Konstantinos Despotis wrote:
it's actually much faster than octane, the same scene above takes roughly 3 times the time to reach the same level of noise in octane even with adaptive sampling turned on, according to my tests
This is very cool to know! Thanks for the test. Regarding other things will reply tomorrow (today) after sleep :)
CentiLeo 0.560 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/153

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

Subscribe to updates: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centileo/
 
Hi Kirg! no freezes in 0.483 nicely done!, but material tag order still wrong.
I did a video showing how c4d behaves about it
video: https://mega.nz/#!mphFwbLL!zFWMgrQDghqYYn-zn9_5DLi-ib0gzhILkc9S-_XrKxs

image: https://mega.nz/#!DoJBHIYQ!fjDrzQLvCAro7K6cZ1IM491HhmJuyLoQz22VclsFUrI

always from left to right.
the most at right material tag will be always the top material on the render over the other tags.
 
It's known issue from beginning) In the VK group I wrote a big list of small things, that need to be fixed in c4d, and Kirgman promised to fix all in nearest releases. Let's give him a time, and I think he really need to get some sleep)
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