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CentiLeo for Cinema 4D 0.500 available (nice bug fixes)
 
Hi everyone,

CentiLeo 0.50 for Cinema 4D R16-R18 is ready! It has a lot of important bugfixes for refractions, diffuse interreflections, etc. Some things like new IPR GUI took a really a lot of time due to fixing new bugs related to it. But this was solved. Hope to add more graphics features to CentiLeo asap.

Download here: http://centileo.com/forum/messages/forum18/message613/122-download-link-centileo-for-cinema-4d-v0500...

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.500 alpha (2017 July 16)

[IPR] Changed GUI engine for IPR mode to JUCE library (www.juce.com). All IPR controls like image resolution and post settings go to the IPR window. It opens the IPR window faster, process images faster and is very cool. Later will add DOF, light pass settings and more cool things there too.
[core] Fixed wrong glass refraction patterns. It is also accelerated a bit for many multiple internal glass reflections.
[core] Improved the look of shadow from the glass objects. (added 19 July 2017)
[core] Improved rough glass render speed and look.
[core] Fixed loss of light energy for diffuse interreflections.
[core] Faster render for HDR lighting with very bright high-contrast spots (thanks to a bugfix).
[core] Fixed problem when display GPU participates in multi-GPU rendering. Before fixing this the display GPU could even deaccelerate collective rendering. Right now display GPU accelerates the multi-GPU render (however remember that display GPU also shares resources with native C4D viewport).
[core] Reduced peak RAM memory consumption when scene with huge meshes is loaded. Just valid and useful data takes place but temporary data doesn’t consume huge memory like before. E.g. for 50M poly meshes it is reduced by ~10GB.
[core] Out-of-core texture cache doesn’t consume all maximum capacity upfront. Now it saturates the cache on demand (when you add textures until the limit that you set in max OOC texture cache setting). It results in minimum RAM consumption (2GB) for blank scene.
[C4D plugin] Fixed window crashing error when you have opened Corona render IPR before CentiLeo.
[C4D plugin] Fixed crash when objects have assigned TextureTags with non-existing or empty materials.

Known issues to be solved (reduced list)

- Displacement mapping feature is deactivated due to large code changes overall. This feature will be recovered within the next few short CentiLeo updates.
- May not initialize if AMD GPU is in your computer together with NVIDIA GPU.
- Very limited scene converter tool from Cinema 4D native materials (only diffuse color and texture are converted and translated if assigned to the object)
- May not support non-latin texture paths.

Important note

We are currently using JUCE library (https://juce.com/) for IPR GUI under Personal license (which is free) for initial testing purpose. In IPR window it will show in the right bottom corner a splash screen for the first start and it dissapears in few sec. It may also connect to Google Analytics to collect end-user stats. Juce guys claim this is nothing bad but stats collection so they know who is using them. However, the plugin works perfectly without any Internet connection.
If everything works well on main technical side then we will buy the full license of JUCE and get rid of these small issues.

Please test it and give us feedback to discover further improvements!

Best regards,
Kirgman
CentiLeo 0.552 for Cinema: http://centileo.com/forum/forum19/149

CentiLeo 0.552 for 3ds Max: http://centileo.com/forum/forum17/151

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In 0.49 times I have promised to make TextureTag and Alpha channel for material stacking by 0.50. And we didn't make it by this moment due to so many issues that needed to be solved for robust IPR work under new GUI engine. It really took lot of time for polishing. However, we will put more efforts to make promised features very soon.
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Reaploaded with small glass fix: shadows casted by glass objects look more proper
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Nice! hey! please add a Centileo Material menu at Material Manager menu like the image
https://ibb.co/mmeH5Q

this will be good by default.
currently we have the menu at the top centileo menu but we have this in Material manager too.
 
+ please unclamp materials Weight sliders.
currently its clamped in 1 so I can't push some values beyond

+ in the IPR we need a camera chooser menu.
currently it only work with the active camera...this can be a problem for product rendering workflow.
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 19.07.2017 18:54:03
 
Hi! Well, unclamping Weights from 1 is non-phys, but who stops us from this. Right now it is possible to override the weight values (or even Color) with const shader with arbitrary value.

As for IPR then together with the list of active cameras the plan is:
183) IPR: progress bar (scene compile, IPR scene reader, texture parser, render, region), PCI Express BW per GPU, pixel inspector, tabs DoF and Light pass, white balance picker, image history, A|B comparison, render stamp, more post stx. Almost a picture viewer
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+ Area Light scale should respect the size of the Area light DETAILS TAB(Size X and Size Y) that way I can edit the size via viewport with Area Light helpers..
 
+ DOF Sensor Width should respect Camera F-Stop value, like a real camera.
lower F-stop = more DOF.
high F_Stop = less DOF
 
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
+ Area Light scale should respect the size of the Area light DETAILS TAB(Size X and Size Y) that way I can edit the size via viewport with Area Light helpers..
But it respects! So do for inner/outer angles of spot light. There is additional are scale in light tag too which multiplies area on top of details tab.
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
+ DOF Sensor Width should respect Camera F-Stop value, like a real camera.
lower F-stop = more DOF.
high F_Stop = less DOF
ok, should do a lot of things for camera
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My bro have shown me some complains of Tiago about CentiLeo speed in interiors on your FB page. Show this to Tiago:

Pre info: CentiLeo's: Min/Max iters 3 / 17 is like 128 / 1024 samples per pixel. In both engines noise limit is 0.01. However, CentiLeo's noise limit of 0.01 seems to be like 0.003 - 0.005 of Redshift. In both renders 4 GI bounces were used and diffuse material with 80% bright white. Light tuned to be similar.
In one case there are area lights in windows. In another case just white solid environment without portals.
Just so simple classical interior. 2 GPUs 970GTX (secondary, not on display).
In same time CentiLeo produces less noise on same HW on same scene. Sometimes not so much less. I have other scenes where in shadow areas CentiLeo has more advantage. With more geo also more advantage.

But I think we may still have some problems on too small GPUs (complains on speed / IPR lags only from them). Will look at this, but not priority. More features is must.
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+ Material default projection should be Cubic or UVW, currently Spherical seems a bit unconvenient.
 
Hey Kirill, thank you for comparison with Redshift, I'm doing some tests with CentiLeo 0.50 here at home, but I'm feeling that new IPR gui is slowing down my C4D session, I have no sure about it, so I gonna test it with my workstation machine at work.

I'd like to suggest mesh light or material emission feature.
 
These things will come in the nearest 1-3 releases. As for IPR then indeed it takes more CPU cycles than before, refresh rate is too high (need to reduce it).
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Hello guys, I made some test for comparison proposes between CentiLeo and Redshift last alpha version:

Each render time is on history by selection highlights.

I did similar render setup for CentiLeo and Redshift, and all Redshift settings are same only changing the Primary and Secondary engines.

The PC configuration:
Core i7 4790 - 8 Threads
32Gb RAM
1x GTX 970 4Gb
CentiLeo.png (1.47 Mb)
 
Hi Tiago, thanks for the test! It seems that in this setup we are 25% slower than their BF-BF (our's is only BF-BF) and probably very slightly less noisy. And for this scene 3.5x slower than irradiance and photon methods. I prefer not to implement these methods due to their limited application and potential strugle with parameters/memory for tiny objects which will be very important for us in the future. Instead we prefer to concentrate on our BF optimizations.

However, in this test there are some aspects needed to be mentioned:
1) Would like to recommend to increase the light of the background yellow room for Centileo case. Otherwise the proportion of lighted and shadowed areas is a bit different.
2) Double check the number of GI bounces in RS and number of ray/diffuse bounces in CentiLeo. For 1:1 comparsion they should be all equal.
3) In CentiLeo the first iteration (from 0 to 1) is used for interactive real-time navigation only (single GPU only). It's fast but only for preview. It's noiser than the higher iterations and produce an overhead for several (maybe 10-15 sec). If the number of Min/Max iterations is 2 (like in this test) then the first iteration is partially visible in the final frame (and it has more noise than can be). If you put Min iters = 3 (at least) and Max iters higher than 3 then the first iteration will be excluded. I will probably fix this and put the minimum value for Min = 3 :))
4) One iteration of CentiLeo corresponds to 64 samples.
So to make more close comparisons I would recommend to align Redshift samples to 64 increments. E.g. if you make Redshift min = 128 and max = 512 it corresponds to CentiLeo's min = 3 and Max = 9 (recall that the first iteration is not used at final renders). And play with noise level value.
5) CentiLeo's adaptive noise driven sampler is more apparent if we run reasonable amount of iterations (like 5, 6, 7 or better tens). At low number of iterations it is almost useless.

6) Why we did it in such a way: simply because we wanted a fusion of progressive - bucket mode with gradual fusion from 0 to 3 iteration in IPR mode which we bet on. And we want to make quick buckets and iterate, iterate, iterate many times like in progressive mode where user can see the whole picture at any time. We also can't make internal bucket size less than 64 samples per pixel because 64 is a very good balance for final render speed coupled with some features. We also preferred to optimize on some more complex cases which naturally require more sampling and etc. etc. When compare on small number of samples/iterations then CentiLeo shows all the overheads that come from this design and can be slower compared to others for simple cases (but still pretty fast). However, these overheads are negligible for more complex scenes and has impact on simple cases.

Why in CentiLeo and Redshift the camera pos is different? Have you moved the camera or applied some offset or etc.? Or our bug? :)
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Question: Are in the roadmap a separated config for preview and final rendering?
I think its very important IMHO.

I mean, not only rendering configs but hardware configs too.
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 21.07.2017 23:50:09
 
Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Question: Are in the roadmap a separated config for preview and final rendering?
I think its very important IMHO.

I mean, not only rendering configs but hardware configs too.
Never thought about it. Need to think how to do it without confusion for user. Think that the only potentially good candidate for this is Hardware settings and maybe sampling params.
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bug report: C4D sculpting tag is not working with Centileo.

PS: sometimes update, sometimes not.
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 03.08.2017 09:07:12
 
Feature request: IPR Post Settings need a reset button.
 
Hi Rodrigo! Thanks for bugrep!
It seems I can reproduce. Sculption layout? Not tag (haven't found it). It has started to update IPR as expected, then at some point stopped reacting for updates.
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Bug: Centileo should avaluate the play and stop(please add a stop button) of the IPR, not the window.
because sometimes I need render in Picture Viewer but I want to maintain the IPR opened(not rendering, just opened).
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 03.08.2017 11:34:38
 
I have evaluated the SculptTag issue with IPR. I have found that if SculptTag is directly attached to an object then updates don't perform in IPR. But if not attached and we modify some object with e.g. a knife then changes are applied automatically.

However, the issue seems to be a potential bug of SculptTag. CentiLeo IPR relies on some special dirty flags that signal that something in scene has changed, we go down and look at object dirty flags, then tags, and etc. And only if dirty flags are on we get the data content to load to IPR. And when SculptTag is attched no changes are reported. Nowhere. It shouldn't be so. I think it should be the same issue with other renderers, but I will check with Maxon techsup of course.

Quote
Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote:
Bug: Centileo should avaluate the play and stop(please add a stop button) of the IPR, not the window.
because sometimes I need render in Picture Viewer but I want to maintain the IPR opened(not rendering, just opened).
If we open Picture Viewer then we need to clear the scene of IPR from memory (can't keep 2 scenes in CentiLeo since it is a lot of vaste of resources).
If we implement maintaining the IPR window and open PV for work then IPR will be just a window with cached image and no scene, no interactive render process while PV is running own render.
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I understand Kirg. thank you
Can I suggest something about the material preview scene?
please use a squared Area Light, this make the material preview a lot more sexy and I can see the Roughness value with more precision
can you send me the default material scene? just for some tests?
Edited: Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues - 04.08.2017 13:40:33
 
Hi Rodrigo! I have made further entire tests with Sculpt Tag. It is just silent if we check it's results in a usual way. It doesn't report that geometry is changed. Currently only Manual Reload option for this in IPR. That's dissapointing and it should be a bug of Cinema or some plugin that they have acquired. We posted to them about this. Hopefully they will suggest a workaround. Other renderers with IPR also have the same problem. Btw nobody before us asked Maxon about this on their development forum.

As for Material Editor scene then it is hardcoded in source codes just for better speed. I.e. no actual scene in file. There are plans to extend this with preview models other than just a sphere. E.g. there can be boxes, planes, sphere, cylinder, torus. And probably there will be a centileo shaderball there too (not sure yet).
The light source in that hardcoded scene is disc area light (quite small) that was tuned to get less noise for the case of very strethed anisotropic highlights. When we add GGX (soon) then things may change. Anyway these ME works are postponed untill we improve our core with features for more mature state (versions 0.6 and 2-3 months since now).

I can type params and coordinates of that scene just to recreate it in C4D file after we finish 0.51.
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