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eric morlic wrote: great update but it crash when rendering for all scene made under centileo.

Does it always crash or only when when you start render a scene built with previous version of centileo?
Std question: what driver version, GPU (maybe several) and RAM size do you have? At what place does it crash?

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: its possible implement a better feedback for sliders like color sliders?, now the ipr only update when you release the mouse button... will be nice if ipr update it in realtime like Octane and other render engines.

Rodrigo, for that problem in 0.482 with IPR freeze and some crashes we have currently payed with this less convenient IPR behavior (changes become accounted when mouse click is UP as you have noted). I don't like it but it's more stable now. The reason is multi-threading in Cinema. Searching for several days how to workaround this and make it reactive at least for camera, materials and post settings.

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: When I start the ipr window there is some kind of lag, C4D becomes unresponsive for a couple of seconds.

This is normal currently. It waits for 7 GPUs to initialize the state and allocate 4GB of memory in RAM. It's good you note about it since there is a chance to move this GPU initialization to the background thread and make UI responsive. However, if the scene is heavy then it's needed to load it from out of the main Cinema thread that's why it can freeze Cinema for some time to finish the task. This is inevitable.

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Cubic mapping does not work, it is the most basic mapping I think it should work to speed things up.

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: but material tag order still wrong. the most at right material tag will be always the top material on the render over the other tags.

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Request feature: a channel for material alpha(Std Material) it will allow us to use a material stack like we have in Cinema 4D

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Evgeniy wrote: In the VK group I wrote a big list of small things, that need to be fixed in c4d, and Kirgman promised to fix all in nearest releases.

These things are related with proper Material and selection Tags parsing and implementing the Alpha channel for CentiLeo material. I think we are ready now to implement it correctly in CentiLeo and there are ideas how to do it properly. MaterialTag also has few simple procedural mapping and UVW mapping and tilling options. The mappings will be inherited by all cntlBitmaps or cntlNoise in default case. So do tiling options. But in every cntlBitmap you will be able to change default mapping channel to some other mapping channel just for this texture and not for others. I think it will support Cinema behavior with some nice extension on top of it.
Hope to do this feature in 0.49 or maybe 0.50. Already working on 0.49 btw.

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: If I change the camera during render the ipr does not update, I have to close the ipr and restart it.

Does this problem still happen?

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the tone mapping options are very important (at the moment 2.2 gamma seems really dark for some reason and I cannot go past 4) to overall host app support,

By default there is contrast 0.5 for shadows and 0.3 for highlights. They can make the look darker. If both are zero, exposure = 0, highlights white = 1 then it is raw untonemapped image. Also the roughness parameter of Diffuse channel can make it darker. And there are thoughts that we should calibrate lighting emission values vs similar parameters in other engines to make things more usual for transition. Will try to do that. Also we plan to add several more nice tonemapping curves for the next version very soon wherein it will be possible to combine several tonemappers with sliders. Hope this will nicer.

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( hair, instances, special shaders like mograph, vertex maps etc..) First, for me, it has to match the features of the other players,(sky models, haze, volumes, particle support, instancing and color variations, node material systems, fast sss and intuitive materials and interface, compositing channels and more.

Instancing is supported, just use native Cinema Instance object where the original obect is referenced. And it will be accounted in CentiLeo internally saving the memory on polygons and etc. In IPR there are stats of unique polygons of scene and instanced (that reference the unique). All the rest things are in plan step by step. E.g. more compositing channels will be available quite soon: SSS, Translucent, and maybe Shadow Catcher AOV channels and several more basic AOVs (like depth, UV, textures, lighting).
Color variation will be done using our future shader like RandomShader, MultiTexture, RandomBitmap (connecting folder of images) and so on and so on.
Agree that SSS must be improved and accelerated. There is a chance for improvement. It's so cool effect.
Things like hair and volume are huge for development and are planned to start in several months because right now we still need to do several more basic things.

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it has to play well with third party plugins that are widely used, like X-particles, Carbon scatter, Forest pack( for max) etc.

It's planned, probably before hair & volume support. We have a method to make very powerfull support of really MANY instances or scatters and fast population in the scene. Hope it will work out.

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Lastly, a good converter from the other main players would go a long way, like convert a scene from Octane/vray/corona/physical render etc to Centileo.

This is true and not easy thing to do right now because our own shader arsenal is still not finished. First we must make the structure and feature set, values ranges and defaults more stable. And then start making converters. Before that if we make a converter then it can be changed again and again.

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And a good portfolio of good architectural/product images on your website would attract people, but they have to be good, better to not have any than have some mediocre ones.

This is what we need from community. After we will do few more basic features (at least by some 0.55 version) there is a hope to invite some active 3D people for help with that gallery, with legal downloadable benchmark scene and etc.


Plan for CentiLeo 0.49 - 0.50:
1) Shadow catcher which draws the direct shadows.
2) GGX reflection (think to do it for Reflection2 and leave Reflection1 as Beckman).
3) More Tonemapping options.
4) TextureTag support (Alpha channel, correct order of materials, procedural mappings, etc.).
5) Mesh Lights (emission channel for material or separate emission material).
6) Improve some IPR performance (there are still few stupid places there).
7) Make few very easy things accumulated from user wishlists since few months ago.

Hope these things can be done. If some problem happen with particular feature then it will be postponed for next releases.
After that we will narrate shaders/textures, procedural noise methods and motion blur. And I think that after that we should do node editor for shaders/materials at least in a very basic way. It should become more convenient with it unlike this menu system.

Hello everyone!

Also publishing CentiLeo 0.483 for 3ds Max 2014-2017 like for C4D week ago!

Sorry, it took very long unexpected time, but it required to do so many little things in a complex system and many times the ongoing release was postponed. But now it's ready!
CentiLeo 0.48 release is mostly about multi-GPU and other efficiency improvements for rendering and memory management. Graphics feature improvements (more shaders, AOVs, improved shadow catcher, motion blur and mesh lights) are expected in the nearest alpha releases which will come out few times per month.

Download here: http://centileo.com/forum/forum13/112-download-link-centileo-for-3ds-max-v0483-alpha

Shaderball scene: http://centileo.com/bitrix/components/bitrix/forum.interface/show_file.php?fid=322&action=download

Light lister script by Ali Kavyani: http://centileo.com/forum/forum22/99-3dsmax-lightlister-script


Change Log: cntlmax 0.483 alpha (2017 May 10)

[core] Multi-GPU support (maximum 16) with adaptive render data and cache arrangement on GPUs with different memory size. It scales 1.9-2.75x for 2-3x GPUs
[core] Up to 50% improved GI sampling for scenes with harder lighting. Sampling becomes smarter at the cost of more complex computations. For scenes with more or less interesting lighting (interiors, exteriors with several CG lights and/or complex HDRs) it gives up to 50% faster rendering. But for scenes with simple lighting (e.g. outdoor with single area light or simple HDR) where new smart sampling is too smart the rendering is 15-25% slower due to more complex computations compared CentiLeo 0.47.
[core] Solved render initialization problem that decreased render speed in CentiLeo 0.47 by 2x until user manually plays with cache sizes. This solution converts to 2x faster render for production mode and for those who didn’t bother with cache size manipulation.
[core] 2.5x faster scene parsing for complex geometry (when render data is initialized and recompiled in IPR mode).
[core] A lot more fluent IPR experience when camera or post-process settings or other scene data are changed. 3D app viewport doesn’t lag as before. IPR responses real-time for simple data changes (like camera motion, post-effects, object motion or material changes) while user continues moving the UI slider params.
[core] Around 40% less memory needed for geometry storage. Now we pack 25M unique non-instanced triangles (with 1 UV channel, normal and tangent vectors) in 1GB. Wider range of highpoly scenes become less out-of-cory.
[core] 30% faster rendering for scenes with out-of-core geometry (and this accel adds on top of mentioned geometry memory savings).
[core] Up to 4 UV channels supported for each geometry mesh (selectable in mapping slots of shaders).
[core] Material editor preview: much faster and nicer preview render.
[core] Each GPU is initialized with as much memory as needed by scene (unlike taking all free memory even for trivial scenes in CentiLeo 0.47).
[core] Render stop criterion is now driven by min/max number of image iterations and also noise level. If the pixel gets at least min iterations and the noise level matches the user defined noise level then the render will not revisit this pixel anymore. Noise detection becomes more conservative and robust now.
[core] Added roughness parameter for Diffuse channel of material (it also hides shadow terminator artifacts on low-poly objects if any).
[cntlmax] Slight reorganization of Material editor GUI (all SSS are placed in one tab, Translucency is also placed in a separate tab).

Known issues to be solved soon

- If you have several GPUs in computer it’s not recommended to assign the display-GPU for rendering. Sometimes is causes strange behavior. Currently we are trying to fix it.
- Displacement mapping feature is deactivated due to large code changes overall. This feature will be recovered within the next few short CentiLeo updates.
- May not initialize if AMD GPU is in your computer together with NVIDIA GPU.
- Very limited scene converter tool from other renderers (only diffuse property and textures from Standard material and Vray material)
- UVW mapping change of parameters may not be accounted by IPR scene auto update mode. To be solved.
- May not support non-latin texture paths.
- Need to finish implementing integration with ForestPack/RailClone/MultiScatter

Enjoy rendering with CentiLeo and share your opinion!

Kirgman

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: Feedback: 0.482 still freezing in the same case of materials. nvidia driver 382.05 nvidia gtx 970 nvidia gtx 970 try change the order of materials tags....it happens too.

+ 0.483 update that fix this bug and related bugs due to other random frezzes, crashes or wrong object parsing

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: it's actually much faster than octane, the same scene above takes roughly 3 times the time to reach the same level of noise in octane even with adaptive sampling turned on, according to my tests

This is very cool to know! Thanks for the test. Regarding other things will reply tomorrow (today) after sleep

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Aimar NL_21 wrote: what happened to displacement maps not showing up anymore

Hi Aimar, they are temporarily switched off by developer. After many changed that were done by 0.48 version there were too many crash bugs and artifacts and that would take 1-2 weeks fix and serious improvements needed. So we have postponed recovering it. I hope to fix it by CentiLeo 0.51-0.53, new displacement solution will be a lot better.

This what I was afraid of. This bug with black marks is about shading normals. I have known about it when looked at normal AOVs. But it appear rarely in the same scene and same conditions. I have few thoughts how to find the exact reason for it but postpone a bit
For example the bug reported by Rodrigo had uncertain reasons and different behavior in the same conditions. Searched it for 2 days and fixed. Will update today together with update for 3ds Max.

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: 1min 30sec render here, only one window, fullhd.

How does it compare to Octane? You also should know that CentiLeo can be accelerated even more in some future.

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: Feedback: 0.482 still freezing in the same case of materials. nvidia driver 382.05 nvidia gtx 970 nvidia gtx 970 try change the order of materials tags....it happens too.

Hi Rodrigo! When tested yesterday it stopped happening. Today it's always reproduced after it was compiled for release. Continue searching for solution.

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: In the image below I get this black area that I don't get with other render engines, it must be a bug.

Hi Konstantinos! Thanks for bugrep. Don't hesitate to demand more. I don't consider requests as negative. If valid thing is asked then it shoudl be done by us
As for the black artifact on the pillow - I have seen it before in the engine, but then it has gone by itself before I was able to fix it.
Please, can you send me the model of this pillow separatelly so I would operate on the problem more productively.

Physical Sky model as you describe is in our Todo list. We start improving our shaders and make other graphics features. And there will be handling of material tags list per object same as in native C4D renderers. Later will do node editor. C4D is very pleasant environment for programming, it's really like a pleasure.

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: and easier materials properties..like what does the texture slot do? It does not take the texture, that should go in the color slot.. so what is it for? etc etc.. maybe better material options layering, I can come up with some examples if you like but check also the other renderers. I like that it is tidy and all options in one material though..

Do you mean that our material slots dont accept usual Cinema textures? They are currently not supported. Currently it can only accept own CentiLeo Bitmaps and other texture types that are available after clicking "Edit" button. Just very custom. Once we make our shader system powerfull enough we wll be able to add support for some C4D textures (at least CC4D Bitmap and some other important things). Still I am not sure about some C4D texture (especially procedural) because they may be closed source and require pre-evaluating them, backing them to images and mapping (Octane does this and it's not always convenien /efficient). Anyway, I hope that when we will have 25 own texture/shader node types that we start implementing now + visual node editor (even if it's own entirelly) it may force people to forget about native menus But anyway most basic native things must be supported.

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: If I change the camera during render the ipr does not update, I have to close the ipr and restart it.

Does IPR run at the same time? Does the timer increase? Have you clicked "Camera Lock" button? Have you made some editing activity before this happens?

+ 0.482 update with 5 more bugfixes mentioned here. See first topic

I think similar way already. I have fixed my bug (with Mix param) and your bug. The source of problem was the same funny mistake. I have reproduced the steps from your video and the problem doesn't appear anymore. Currently I am solving a bug with wrong smooth normals and resulting artifacts that appeared in 0.48, Once I fix it there will be small bugfix update. After that will continue working on new features

Hi Rodrigo! The video is very clear about what is happening. Thanks for your effort! I will recreate the same case in my computer to find the fix for bug. It was strange. At least it is good that it didn't crashed the entire system but has paused internally (CentiLeo has internal pause and one user click-pause). Maybe internal pause was emerged for such quick scene.

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: plus: the material tags need to be avaluated from left to righ at object manager see the image: https://ibb.co/n6xFi5

Sure, I see this problem, will fix it together with more proper TextureTag interpretation for CentiLeo.

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: Feature Request: add an option on Cinema 4D preferences to set the defaults GPUs for rendering(like this example from redshift) image: https://ibb.co/de9QGQ

We have such option in standard scene render settings in the tab "Hardware Settings". They are saved per scene.

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play boy wrote: Congrads on the release! Work fine with 1080ti SLI. I'm testing here, thank you!

Thanks! I haven't forgotten about fixing shadows on shadow catcher. Hope to do them soon in 0.49

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: Hi Kirg! I will do a step by step video soon

Hi Rodrigo! Thanks a lot! Maybe some example .c4d file will also help

Hi Konstantinos! Thanks for the test!
It is interesting to know what are the timings with this scene with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 GPUs. And with/without
display GPU.
There are some stability bugs because a lot of things have changed. Trying to fix them asap.

We really lack good shaders arsenal. In the next few updates there is a plan to make at least 20 shader nodes, procedural noise and mapping. Also want to make it friendly with TextureTag.
I was thinking about 3rd party GUI engine for node editor, but will probably do like xpresso with native c4d tools.

To make a sun you should add c4d sun obect + centileo light tag. I will add more presets like sun, glass material to the top menu

I got stability problems when changing any kind of Mix parameter in material

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Rodrigo Bitencourt Rodrigues wrote: Hi Kirgman! great news buddy! I'm testing here, thank you! bug report: IPR and cinema freeze when you change from a material to another when IPR is running.

Hi Rodrigo! Does it always reproduce? Can you please describe this case a bit more (which scene, materials, GPUs, etc.). I still can't reproduce

0.481 update: Fixed bug when one of several GPUs may randomly avoid participating in collective rendering.

this thing is not needed anymore since 0.48

Hello everyone!

We finally made CentiLeo 0.48 for Cinema 4D R16-R18! It took so long time, so many efforts. Sorry for very long waiting! We thought were close to release for the last 2.5 months but technical development issues emerged and forced us to do more complex solutions to get right result. And that cycle happened several times. This 0.48 version development was harder than integrating with C4D or 3ds Max .

CentiLeo 0.48 release is mostly about multi-GPU and other efficiency improvements for rendering and memory management. Graphics feature improvements (more shaders, AOVs, improved shadow catcher, motion blur and mesh lights) are expected in the nearest alpha releases which will come out few times per month.

Download here: http://centileo.com/forum/messages/forum18/message548/110-download-link-centileo-for-cinema-4d-v048-...

Download shaderball: http://centileo.com/bitrix/components/bitrix/forum.interface/show_file.php?fid=326&action=download

User manual from 0.44 (yes it needs update): User Manual - cntlc4d-0.44alpha_en.pdf

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.480 alpha (2017 May 2)

[core] Multi-GPU support (maximum 16) with adaptive render data and cache arrangement on GPUs with different memory size. It scales 1.9-2.75x for 2-3x GPUs
[core] Up to 50% improved GI sampling for scenes with harder lighting. Sampling becomes smarter at the cost of more complex computations. For scenes with more or less interesting lighting (interiors, exteriors with several CG lights and/or complex HDRs) it gives up to 50% faster rendering. But for scenes with simple lighting (e.g. outdoor with single area light or simple HDR) where new smart sampling is too smart the rendering is 15-25% slower due to more complex computations compared CentiLeo 0.47.
[core] Solved render initialization problem that decreased render speed in CentiLeo 0.47 by 2x until user manually plays with cache sizes. This solution converts to 2x faster render for production mode and for those who didn’t bother with cache size manipulation.
[core] 2.5x faster scene parsing for complex geometry (when render data is initialized and recompiled in IPR mode).
[core] A lot more fluent IPR experience when camera or post-process settings or other scene data are changed. 3D app viewport doesn’t lag as before. IPR responses real-time for simple data changes (like camera motion, post-effects, object motion or material changes) while user continues moving the UI slider params.
[core] Around 40% less memory needed for geometry storage. Now we pack 25M unique non-instanced triangles (with 1 UV channel, normal and tangent vectors) in 1GB. Wider range of highpoly scenes become less out-of-cory.
[core] 30% faster rendering for scenes with out-of-core geometry (and this accel adds on top of mentioned geometry memory savings).
[core] Up to 4 UV channels supported for each geometry mesh (selectable in mapping slots of shaders).
[core] Material editor preview: much faster and nicer preview render. [core] Each GPU is initialized with as much memory as needed by scene (unlike taking all free memory even for trivial scenes in CentiLeo 0.47).
[core] Render stop criterion is now driven by min/max number of image iterations and also noise level. If the pixel gets at least min iterations and the noise level matches the user defined noise level then the render will not revisit this pixel anymore. Noise detection becomes more conservative and robust now.
[core] Added roughness parameter for Diffuse channel of material (it also hides shadow terminator artifacts on low-poly objects if any).
[C4D plugin] Improved render time in native Picture Viewer mode by updating secondary AOV output less frequently.
[C4D plugin] Slight reorganization of Material editor GUI (all SSS are placed in one tab, Translucency is also placed in a separate tab).

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.481 alpha (2017 May 3)

[core] Fixed bug when one of several GPUs may randomly avoid participating in collective rendering

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.482 alpha (2017 May 4)

[core] Fixed bug when changing any Mix parameter of material (or any parameter which has no effect ) may cause render degradation and crash.
[core] Fixed bug when switching between materials (and/or removing them) may cause render stop.
[core] Fixed bug with artifacts related to wrong smooth normals of mesh.
[core] Fixed bug with artifacts on anisotropic reflections.
[core] Fixed bug when material tangent space doesn’t really change when user enables it.
[C4D plugin] Added Sun item to main CentiLeo menu which adds sun with proper tags understandable by CentiLeo.

Change Log: cntlc4d 0.483 alpha (2017 May 10)

[core] Fixed bug with missing polygons on small objects like plane.
[C4D plugin] Fixed bug with render stop upon deletion of material tag.
[C4D plugin] Fixed bug with IPR random wrong parsing of objects and render freezes.

Known issues to be solved

- If you have several GPUs in computer it’s not recommended to assign the display-GPU for rendering. Sometimes is causes strange behavior. Currently we are trying to fix it.
- Displacement mapping feature is deactivated due to large code changes overall. This feature will be recovered within the next few short CentiLeo updates.
- Sometimes GUI of IPR window may have old style controls.
- May not initialize if AMD GPU is in your computer together with NVIDIA GPU.
- Very limited scene converter tool from Cinema 4D native materials (only diffuse color and texture are converted and translated if assigned to the object)
- May not support non-latin texture paths.

Enjoy rendering with CentiLeo again! And please shader experience related to multi-GPU behavior.

Kirgman

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Konstantinos Despotis wrote: Hello! It's been sometime! How is the multicore going? Please give us an update on current status and keep up the good work!

Hi Konstantinos! Practically done, I hope to post it within few days . Very few small issues/bugs must be solved before that. Need to collect memory garbage when we switch on/off multiple times the threads for multi-GPU, also need to make Picture Viewer working (it was broken), and need to tune some params.